2024 has been the most prolific year of Kiyoshi Kurosawa’s career; last February he presented at the Berlinale Chime, his long-awaited comeback to the atmospheric horror genre that characterized the first phase of his career, while in less than two weeks he will premiere at the San Sebastián Film Festival Serpent’s Path, the French remake of his homonymous film from 1998. And two weeks ago, Kurosawa took part in the Venice Film Festival to present his third project of the year, Cloud (also programmed at TIFF), an intriguing action thriller centered on Ryosuke Yoshii (Masaki Suda), an ordinary person who makes a living by reselling things on the Internet under the pseudonym of “Ratel.” His activity and the way he exploits other people will encourage the assemblage of a group of people who want to get revenge for Yoshii’s actions.
In Venice, I sat down with Kurosawa to discuss the influence of the Internet on his cinema, the way the anxious state of Japanese society formed one of Cloud‘s main inspirations, and more.
Omar Franini: What was the starting point of Cloud? Is there any specific incident that gave you the idea to tell this story?
Kiyoshi Kurosawa: Yes, there were a couple of incidents I took inspiration from, but these weren’t the starting point. I was simply interested in directing an action movie, not a stereotypical one with battleships and so on, but one focused on ordinary people. That was my initial thought, and then I suppose I took some events I knew about to write the script. Just to give you an example, in Japan there was this story a few years ago where people met online and set up the murder of one person. While I was doing my research on this subject, I also had this impression that in Japan people are pessimistic about the future, especially the younger generation. They are concerned about it, that causes stress and anxiety, and they find a bit of relief online through the use of the Internet. I thought it would be interesting to also talk about this in the movie.
OF: From a structural perspective, what’s interesting is how you handled the rhythm and the mix of genres in the movie because, as you mentioned before, you wanted to direct an action movie, but this genre comes alive only in the latter half of the film, while the first part is more of a slow-burn thriller. How did you work on the flow of the movie?
KK: The main reason for the “slow” pace of the first part is because of the main characters. They are ordinary people, there’s no violence, shootings, or stabbings in their daily lives, unlike the Mafia, the Yakuza, police forces, or militaries, who are usually the main focus of action movies, whose lives revolve around violence. That’s why at the beginning the movie it’s somehow slow and “peaceful,” but as it progresses and the ordinary life of these people becomes more endangered, it becomes more violent.
OF: Given the whole arc the main character has, would you say you wanted to portray this peculiar journey to madness?
KK: I wouldn’t say that there is madness in this movie. Of course, some people of the “enemy” group may be mad, but it’s because they have their reasons to be. But I don’t think Yoshii is mad at all. As I said before, I wanted to portray an ordinary person as the main character, and I was interested in showing how his perspective and state of mind changes as the story progresses, as his more evil side emerges.
OF: You said the anxious state of younger people leads them to join these online groups, but in the movie we can see it’s not just about younger generations. The boss, Takimoto, for example, has an established life, but he still joins the group. Were you trying to say something specific about this older generation?
KK: So, I put all the generations in the enemy group because I think this is just a mirror of Japanese society. All the generations, and not only young people, have this kind of anxiety inside of them and they are desperate about their lives. There’s no difference between young and old generations, they are just desperate and have no hope for the future. I can also add that I wanted to put one lady in the enemy group, but I couldn’t come up with a good role. I think that was the limit of my imagination, and that’s one thing I regret about making the movie.
OF: Speaking about the Internet, this is not the first time you’ve used it as a key element in your movies. I’m thinking about Pulse (2001) especially, a movie that was ahead of its time where, you know, the Internet was like a magical and weird place in most films. So I wanted to ask you how this initial fascination and understanding of the Internet has evolved throughout your movies.
KK: As you said, when Pulse was released, the Internet was seen as this mystical and magical thing, and we didn’t know much about it. And because of that, I was able to create some fictional stories with mysterious entities or monsters. Today, the Internet is still there and it has become an important tool in our daily lives. I don’t think we can categorize the Internet itself as a good or a bad thing; the way we use it is the main problem, and it’s one we’re fully aware of. And consequently, Cloud is closer to reality than fiction. Recently, the online world has been used to generate hate toward other people, and through this platform, hate will be motivated and multiplicated until it reaches a certain point where bad things will happen. Of course, good things can also be done with the Internet, and that confirms that it is such an essential tool. The way our societies use it makes the difference.
OF: What can you tell me about the character of the assistant? Is there any symbolism behind this ambiguous figure?
KK: I would define the assistant as a “demon.” He’s always supporting Yoshii, and he can help him do everything. And when I say everything, I mean both the good and the bad things you witness in the movie. He is the most unrealistic character in this movie, but one of the most essential because it helped me describe the more “evil” side of the main character.
OF: Yoshii is played by the terrific Masaki Suda, and his performance is one of the strongest assets of the movie. What prompted you to choose him as the lead for Cloud?
KK: I’m very grateful to have him in my movie because he is the one of the top actors in Japan nowadays. He’s around 30 years old, and even though is still young, he carries around a huge aura and has already played some difficult characters in his career so far. I think in Cloud he had to play an even more difficult role because of the ambiguous nature of this ordinary person. At the beginning he struggled a bit, but in the end he understood exactly what I wanted from the character and his acting. He gave an extraordinary performance, and he conveyed perfectly that ambiguity. That’s why I’m so grateful to have worked with him.
